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CRM Vendors Continue to Confuse the Social Media Space

January 19, 2009 · 14 Comments

I continue to spend time working on our strategy and product offering around social media for the B2B world. Having evolved our business from the CRM space, we keep a close eye on what some of the big dicks are doing and I continue to be profoundly disappointed at what I’m seeing. And whilst it dismays me that I have to mention SFDC twice in the one month, it is necessary as yet again, the propaganda from SFDC has hit the airwaves without anyone being critical of what it all means.

Firstly, this initiative is not ground breaking. I commented on this recently in another blog post and stand by those comments and this additional post.

The article in question goes to great lengths to promote the failings of the social media monitoring tools (even mentioning the thought leaders like Radian6 and Techrigy) creating in my opinion a Benioff-esque tone of “they’re not a CRM so clearly they can’t be any good” as well as promoting a “jump in with jack boots” approach to interacting with the community

Example #1

After all, monitoring a conversation is one thing, but responding to it is another entirely — the domain of CRM, something Salesforce knows better than almost anyone else.

Monitoring or listening is one of the most fundamental activities of any company wanting to harness the power of the groundswell (with due credit to Li and Bernoff).

SFDC’s strategy seems to not so much put them on a collision course with the community monitoring start ups but puts you the customer on a collision course with your own community. I can’t help but feel SFDC are rushing into this space with grand plans about how you can use their platform to “respond” to social media activity yet they haven’t given a second of time to understanding the strategy that MUST reside behind the use of web 2.0 tools.

These “monitoring tools” deliver far more value than they are given credit for. Tools like Radian6 and Techrigy have a rich set of features that if used properly will allow a company to quickly and easily tap into the true feeling of the community. And it’s not just the “I’m interesting” bit that you should be tracking. Why not use these tools to keep an ear to what the community is saying about your strategic customers. Can you imagine going to one of your major customers with a solution to a problem that you unearthed via Radian6 when they probably don’t even know the problem exists? How can you use this information to deliver innovation to a major customer? I’m sorry but SFDC isn’t going to do that for you…

Example #2

But monitoring thousands of conversations across Facebook, Twitter, MySpace, YouTube and blog comments is only part of the challenge. You still have to respond to them.

Absolute rubbish. If anyone goes into this thinking they need to respond to every piece of social noise about their company or products then they will fail quickly (and spectacularly).

This is what you’ll be doing if you follow what the author and SFDC are suggesting:

One of Marta Zagan's slides about Social Media

Due credit to Marta Zagan

Let me repeat something else Marta Zagan suggests – “The goal is not to control the conversation”.

In simple terms, the goal of using social network analytics is to watch, listen, and share some information with your community.

Don’t ever think you can skip the listen bit. And without tools like Radian6 or Techrigy you won’t be listening properly. Brian Solis (Social Media Manifesto) commented – “It’s about conversations, and the best communicators start as the best listeners”. Think about that for a minute. Isn’t this suggesting we step back and listen, then contribute? Not jump in boots and all with a human-being charged with responding and controlling?

Don’t go jumping in thinking you can communicate. You will need humans involved, but more importantly you need to have everyone understanding what the strategy is and what effort and commitment is required. Because this social media stuff isn’t easy. Get your VP of Sales in and let them see the data, let the Exec’s see what people are saying, in fact, make it a priority to have non-sales and marketing people looking at some of this information so that you can gain insights into the information.

CRM will have a role to play in how you engage with your communities, but it can’t be the driving force behind this. You must have everyone understanding how you as a company will harness these tools to deliver a dialogue and engagement. And you must also confront the problem of whether you even want this data in the CRM in the first place.

And just so you know, there are some CRM vendors doing some far more interesting work in this space than SFDC. RightNow is really ahead of the curve when it comes to customer experience management and SugarCRM are miles ahead in terms of how they are harnessing the power of open source with these great new web 2.0 tools.

Gorilla in their midst – hardly…

Your comments are welcome as always


Categories: Customer Experience Management · sales 2.0 · social media
Tagged: , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

14 responses so far ↓

  • Amber Naslund // January 19, 2009 at 1:43 pm | Reply

    Hi Mark,

    Thanks for the great show of support and kind words about Radian6.

    Social media monitoring is certainly becoming a more critical piece of business and brand management, and we at Radian6 are also working hard each day to seamlessly integrate that process into other business workflow. As this space continues to evolve, we’ll need to articulate and define best practices that take into consideration all of the human resources and business objectives that are unique to each company.

    Listening in social media is a very active strategy, not a passive one, and we appreciate your advocacy and continuation of a very valuable discussion.

    Thanks again for your support.

    Best,
    Amber Naslund
    Director of Community | Radian6
    @AmberCadabra

    • smartsellingblog // January 19, 2009 at 8:33 pm | Reply

      Thanks Amber. I’m pleased to hear you’re looking at how you fit into business as this will be important before too long. I agree with you about listening being active, I didn’t mention that in the post so good point

      cheers Mark

  • Prem // January 19, 2009 at 2:17 pm | Reply

    I agree with your stand that listening should come before talking to make a good conversation, the prime goal of Social CRM or CRM 2.0, which ever way you want to call it.

    Its not a case of “gorilla in the midst” of SMM cos, rather discussing about the elephant in the room with the CRM cos. Both need each other to become Social CRM or CRM 2.0

    I have tried to put down some of my thoughts on the mid ground they need to come to in my mind map on Social CRM – http://scorpfromhell.blogspot.com/2008/12/social-crm-for-techie.html

    I would be glad to accept comments/feedback/brickbats to the mind map :)

  • Martin Edic (Techrigy) // January 19, 2009 at 2:44 pm | Reply

    CRM is a post-contact solution. As the name suggests it is for managing customer communications. Social media conversations are not B-C or B-B conversations, they are peer to peer conversations. If you treat everyone out there as a ‘market segment’ you are going to have problems because these are individuals.
    I totally agree with the tone of this post and appreciate the mentions. I’d add that we not only provide the listening and analysis tools, we also provide the means for engaging and tracking your engagement. This is the future of marketing- and it does not fit the old models. The CRM providers are jumping onto a bandwagon and doing what all the other traditional marketers keep trying to do: Take existing models and glom them onto an entirely new paradigm. It doesn’t work.

    • smartsellingblog // January 19, 2009 at 8:40 pm | Reply

      Hi Martin, I kind of agree with you about CRM but kind of don’t. As you would know, in the B2B world, we have suspects, prospects, former customers, influencers etc. CRM is very powerful in managing these different types of customers and non-customers. This is where I can see tools like yours being used very strategically.

      I agree with you about old models trying to fit a new paradigm which is probably at the heart of my post – frustration that these big guys are stomping all over the new paradigm and putting it at risk.

  • Connie Bensen // January 19, 2009 at 3:18 pm | Reply

    Hi Mark,
    Some really good observations. The enterprise is going to want to jump in to ‘listening’ and responding & pigeonhole that away into a department. I agree that that goes against the concepts of community & what we’re talking about. As I commented on the GigaOm article the new Salesforce doesn’t bridge to other departments (which will make the enterprise comfortable, but if they are… they are still trying to control the message as you pointed out by referencing Brian Solis’ work).

    And thanks so much for referencing Techrigy! Our tool offers a versatile solution with a complete set of analytics that has so much more than the ‘gorilla’.

    • smartsellingblog // January 19, 2009 at 8:43 pm | Reply

      Hi Connie,
      You’ve raised a good point about the need to share information across departments. In essence many organisations need to apply social media concepts to their own backyard first (which Oracle has done very well). One of the greatest risks you face is battling this manic-like obsession that SFDC has about being the “platform” for the enterprise, where everything and everyone revolves around “their” system. I’m going to think some more about this as it reinforces my concerns about strategy being overlooked. Thanks again

  • Matthew Brazil // January 19, 2009 at 4:13 pm | Reply

    Great Post!

    Radian6 gives you not only a monitoring and engagement tool but also workflow capability. Internally at 6Consulting we use Radian6 to map, monitor and engage with our target audience. We track our work directly within the Radian6 dashboard.

    Thanks

    Matthew Brazil
    CEO / Co-Founder
    6Consulting Ltd
    Twitter: @6consulting

  • Steve Dodd // January 19, 2009 at 9:54 pm | Reply

    Some very interesting discussions here. But, don’t underestimate the power of CRM systems and thier ability to manage “real time” conversations. And, as the Social Media world becomes mainstream, companies will by their nature put a management “box” around it. We are seeing our corporate clients wanting effective control over process and relationships through their chosen CRM standard.
    My personal background in the CRM may make my opinions a bid jaded but few looking from “the outside in” understand the real power of these systems. SFDC is already starting to do things in this space and there are others like SugarCRM and others not even mentioned that are entering this space. The key part of the term is “Relationship Management” not “Customer Management”.

    • smartsellingblog // January 20, 2009 at 1:37 am | Reply

      Steve, I concur that we shouldn’t underestimate the power of the CRM vendors to adapt. The reason we have CRM in the cloud is because innovators like Salesforce, Upshot, and Salesnet moved us into that space. And I recall the negative sentiments at the time from the established players like Oracle and SAP, along with many potential customers.

      Having said that, I have my doubts about whether SFDC can manage real time conversations effectively given that the “platform” struggles to provide decent sales reporting functionality – witness the emergence of many business analytics tools into the AppExchange program which do what I consider to be standard reporting (Cloud9 and LucidEra are the two leading partners in this space).

      It’s interesting you mention the importance of “relationship management” as in many respects, managing this new social space is more about “experience management”. This is quite a mindset shift for many corporations and is a reflected in the slow take up of these tools by the B2B world. The concept of relinquishing control is a threat that is yet to be understood.

      I think whilst vendors like SFDC and Oracle continue to spew out senseless old model PR then those on the outside looking in are going to continue to lack an understanding of this real power.

  • Ian Hendry // February 4, 2009 at 10:56 am | Reply

    Great post Mark. I would say that most CRM vendors story around social media/networks is pretty lame. And it would seem odd for them to try to go fixing what they see as the shortcomings of established social media monitoring solutions before they have met the most basic requirements of a socially aware CRM solution: updating a customer record with public information shared through social networks.

    For a sales or marketing professional to be able to refer to their CRM system and get all of the information that contact makes public through simple integration with Facebook, LinkedIn, WeCanDo.BIZ or whatever would be enormously powerful. Not to mention the first thing a CRM vendor should get right before it starts telling all other vendors what they are doing wrong.

    Ian Hendry
    CEO, WeCanDo.BIZ
    http://www.wecando.biz

  • Steve Dodd // April 28, 2009 at 12:21 pm | Reply

    Hi Mark, I just wanted to come back to this after really scanning the market looking for specific CRM assistance as it relates to day to day selling activities. Many salespeople are trying to engage in social media techniques to leverage customer relationships. To a great extent, it works. But, when with my primary system players (the CRMs of the world) get around to integrating SM technologies to help me manage these new contact touch points?

    Currently, my CRM is my communications interface. It manages tasks, emails, meetings, calls and keeps me on top of the 100’s of people I’m regularly dealing with. When you add Social Media to this mix, I really need my CRM to help with that as well.

    • Mark Parker // April 28, 2009 at 12:41 pm | Reply

      Steve,
      I understand what you mean. One of my biggest issues in the CRM space has been the rush by vendors to “get jiggy” with the latest fad – hence the outpouring of frustration that Salesforce.com have come into this space with a confused approach and it’s applauded by the analysts. Having seen how systems like Salesforce.com and RightNow struggle/fail to get the basics right around effective data management, I’m very dubious of their strategy to let more data in.

      We’ve been researching the idea of Social CRM for a while – in our view is kind of a systemisation of sales 2.0. I think this is the right direction as in reality CRM is now really a business platform for customer data – I don’t believe it’s an application any more. We’ve done some interesting work building out this idea of the CRM eco-system which we’ll share shortly.

      thanks for the comment

  • Ian Hendry // April 28, 2009 at 1:18 pm | Reply

    Mark, check out Forrester’s view on what they think will happen with what we are calling Social CRM. In short, they think it will come the only CRM; but not starting until 2011 and maturing in 2013.

    http://ow.ly/4csk

    We’ll be adding shared ID login and CRM capabilities to our social network for small businesses this summer. Are we really 2 – 4 years ahead of the curve?

    Ian Hendry
    CEO, WeCanDo.BIZ
    Twitter: @wecandobiz

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